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Posted:  11/14/2008 11:09 PM #14639
Jeffrey


Joined: 7/19/2007
Posts: 488
Last Post: 12/18/2009
Subject: Harsh reality for SHTF weapons.
I have been seeing too much talk about shotguns as SHTF weapons and I think its time to invoke some harsh reality.

I think a shotgun is a terrible choice for SHTF. I assume you will have only one long arm? If you want to seriously talk about life or death situations and surviving no matter what, then you are talking about long range accuracy, one shot kills at any range, and reliability. With the best defence being a strong offence being able to kill a man at 600 yards should be required of a weapon. Not all "defensive" situations are within 50 yards in SHTF. If you only have a shotgun, and the bad guy has a rifle two blocks away, you are dead.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but kinda wanted to get back to reality. My personal situation in SHTF: I will be the primary defender of a small family. I have a beautiful wife and a child. I will not allow anyone to get close enough to become a threat. There will be many people out there. Hmm..ya know now that I think about it....you should carry a shotgun, a .22 pistol, and lots of batteries. Oh, would you keep 1000 rounds of .308 in your trunk also? Your keys are in your front pocket, right?

This is the mindset of the people you may be defending against.
When was the last time you went to the range?

Posted:  11/16/2008 2:05 AM #14671
Marksman


Joined: 6/9/2008
Posts: 47
Last Post: 4/12/2009
I will back up jeffrey on this post. He is referring to ballistic advantage, and it would make me take my m1a over my ar 15 if things got ugly. Why? Because the heavier bullet can engage targets way past 300 yds and hurt. I would much rather start the fight at that distance than have someone else start it at less than 40 feet away...which is about what a shotgun is good for. And a rifle packs a punch (with great accuracy) at short distances. IMO a shotgun is a SHTF survival weapon of luxury for hunting birds and other game...

Posted:  11/16/2008 8:53 AM #14665
bapa


Joined: 11/6/2006
Posts: 657
Last Post: 4/29/2009
As with any choice of weapon, you have to match it to the intended purpose. If you are located at you BO location and have the advantage of distance and time to engage your target of course a centerfire rifle is your first choice.

However, if the SHTF scenerio is one where a knock at your door at 3 AM is some LEW trying to get in to steal your food and provisions a 12 ga with OO buck is a great choice!

There is no, one perfect weapon for every occasion. The gun must fit the application. One long gun just won't do the trick. Unless you have one of those doubles which have a double barrel one center fire and one a shotty barrel. Anticipate the applications and arm yourself accordingly.
NAHC Life Member
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.
64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday

Posted:  11/16/2008 10:52 PM #14667
SithLord


Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 155
Last Post: 4/4/2009
Got that right Bapa - well said.
"Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion... in private self-defense". President John Adams.

Posted:  11/16/2008 11:31 PM #14668
marco529


Joined: 8/25/2008
Posts: 132
Last Post: 11/25/2009
Subject: SHTF Weapon?
WOW you got just one? I got (lets say) more than one and they all have thier purpose, as for transporting them if I had to backpack it I'd be down to carrying a couple but otherwise I can engage an elephant at 800 yards or a Kodiak 3ft . It's like bapa said you never know whats gona come your way so you have to prepare for many different scenario's .

"HEY self defence is no laughing matter , thats why when it comes to number 1 - I pack an UZI!!" Mel Gibson in Air America :lol:
DAMN THE TORPEDOES , FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!

Posted:  11/17/2008 10:50 AM #14675
MartiMcFly


Joined: 6/3/2008
Posts: 589
Last Post: 10/27/2010
Just carry one of each :twisted:

Martin
MartinD@CheaperThanDirt.com
www.CheaperThanDirt.com

Posted:  11/18/2008 11:12 PM #14674
Marksman


Joined: 6/9/2008
Posts: 47
Last Post: 4/12/2009
Subject: Harsh reality for SHTF weapons.
yeah, these guys do have it right :D Now I almost do want a SHTF scenario...just to see some guy walking down the street with 14 guns, 8000rnds of ammo, and the kitchen sink strapped to his back...now that's prepared... :wink:

Posted:  11/20/2008 1:07 AM #14737
wildmanofwichita


Joined: 12/12/2006
Posts: 796
Last Post: 5/13/2010
If you are physically strong enough; a "Mini-Gun" with one 4400 round box will take care of ANY "light work" you encounter...... 8) 8)

Shalom and Godspeed
"Dissent is the Highest Form of Patriotism." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Those That OWN the Country, Ought to Govern It" (John Jay, 1st U.S. Supreme Court Justice)

Posted:  11/20/2008 6:37 AM #14742
wytelitening


Joined: 10/11/2005
Posts: 1592
Last Post: 11/22/2008
Ugh, what bapa said----The battlegrounds of today, or a SHTF scenario here at home is totally different from the battlegrounds of WW2. The trenches from which the soldiers drew a bead on the enemy at 300yds plus will not apply. A knock on the door by them damn LEW's will definately 'cause me to rack a double aught into the chamber in order to say "welcome to the shadows". My "47" will sweep the yard and my Yugo will follow me to the thicket with my Taurus in its holster at my side.

Of course, good sniping has its place also, simply depends on the given area. :wink:
With guns we are "citizens"---Without we are "subjects"----

Posted:  11/20/2008 12:17 PM #14743
marco529


Joined: 8/25/2008
Posts: 132
Last Post: 11/25/2009
Well marksman if I have to walk down the street then things are really bad , but if I did then I'd probabaly be carrying my SKS with a hundred rounds and my ruger P-95 with 45 rds , I'm planing on avoiding a large scale battle and if I need my other weapons they'll be waiting for me back with the rest of my gear :wink:
DAMN THE TORPEDOES , FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!

Posted:  11/20/2008 9:14 PM #14744
MR SLOW


Joined: 7/2/2008
Posts: 57
Last Post: 5/15/2009
I will carry two mac-10 under my coat and keep a M1A in my trunk loaded with 2 ammo boxes full of ammo and magazines. I carry a short sword for my light work. Stop by the local gang bangers and pickup some street toys that you can't get from no gun store.

Posted:  11/21/2008 12:51 AM #14738
Marksman


Joined: 6/9/2008
Posts: 47
Last Post: 4/12/2009
No, I'm with you guys, and I think a lot more people will be under prepared than this funny vision I had. I would hate to leave anything useful behind, and I actually think I could carry four of five guns pretty easily, with two being handguns, and some ammo for each. I will just have a heavy pack, and yes, avoid walking down the street in the middle of the afternoon... 8)

Posted:  11/21/2008 6:33 AM #14741
wildmanofwichita


Joined: 12/12/2006
Posts: 796
Last Post: 5/13/2010
Marksman,

Ask some of the Vets (who are on this Forum) who have been in the "Sandbox", how much weight is involved when fully "humping" gear. SOCOM/SOG is around 80lbs-Grunt is up to 120lbs-Airborne "Cats" fully loaded in the plane can be upwards of close to 150lbs. Each service and mission will determine weight;e.g. are you going to sleep "under the stars" like the 82nd, or, are you going to hunker down for rest with a tent and sleeping bag?

You need to have two (2) set-ups ready to go at a moments notice; 1 set-up for Winter, 1 set-up for Spring-Summer-Fall, the triple set-up is possible because many things can be used for the 3 milder seasons; Winter is "unforgiving." Your camo will have to be adapted to the terrain, climate, and season too.

Just imagine what amount of equipment (and the corresponding weight.....) you would need TODAY (very EARLY Winter) with the temperatures we currently have.....unless you live in Phoenix or Miami............

Shalom and Godspeed
"Dissent is the Highest Form of Patriotism." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Those That OWN the Country, Ought to Govern It" (John Jay, 1st U.S. Supreme Court Justice)

Posted:  11/21/2008 11:13 AM #14730
Blake


Joined: 9/22/2006
Posts: 414
Last Post: 3/28/2009
If you want to cover all weapons in a SHTF situation then just carry an AK or M1A Socom II, A handgun (of your choice), and a side or top folding stock shotgun in a case or scabard on your pack.

Also if you think it would be too heavy I would suggest working out because if the SH'sTF you'll want all of it with you.
A firearm is only as dangerous as the user wants it to be.

Posted:  11/21/2008 2:39 PM #14731
MartiMcFly


Joined: 6/3/2008
Posts: 589
Last Post: 10/27/2010
The one thing you guys have not mentioned on here is basically a SHTF squad.

You could have atleast one guy who is proficient at using a long range rifle while another is good at using a shot gun. Having all of these guns on you at once is going to make you a dead give away. You also will not have the maneuverability. I'm sure you have heard the saying strength in number die alone. Work together to carry the load. I do not care how strong you are and how much you condition yourself who could carry a hand gun a shot gun a long and medium range rifle, ammo, and other supplies?

Something to think about.
Martin
MartinD@CheaperThanDirt.com
www.CheaperThanDirt.com

Posted:  11/21/2008 4:21 PM #14734
Marksman


Joined: 6/9/2008
Posts: 47
Last Post: 4/12/2009
Yes balancing the weight to benefit ratio for gear is something that takes many hours of repacking and lifting to get right, and even then there is never perfection. I set it up so I have an immediate bag for 'right now' emergencies and two larger ones with extra ammo and supplies if I have time to load up the truck. If anyone has a bulletproof HMVWW with a .50 cal on top I wouldn't mind borrowing it for three or four years...just pm me... :lol:

As for squads I agree that there is power in numbers, and it would be nice to have networks for support, store gear at peoples houses, etc. But it is hard to trust people these days...So of the hundreds I know I trust only a few, and they are not exactly well versed in military tactics...bummer

Posted:  11/21/2008 4:29 PM #14735
Blake


Joined: 9/22/2006
Posts: 414
Last Post: 3/28/2009
With an M1A Socom there is no need for a long and medium range rifle it'll take care of both.
A firearm is only as dangerous as the user wants it to be.

Posted:  11/21/2008 4:30 PM #14736
wytelitening


Joined: 10/11/2005
Posts: 1592
Last Post: 11/22/2008
Good points Marti, but when the chit comes down could you really count on others. If you will go back a bit I did say that good sniping has its place also. A lot of folks are "all show and no go" and I'm afraid that these team players would cop out once "its on". Of course you may be referring to loyal family members such as SSD (spouse, sons, and daughters) which is indeed a working solution.

All I can say is every family should sit down and talk about this. It must begin at home in order for our paths to cross someday. Sad as it may sound, it is inevitable.----
With guns we are "citizens"---Without we are "subjects"----

Posted:  11/21/2008 10:21 PM #14733
Jeffrey


Joined: 7/19/2007
Posts: 488
Last Post: 12/18/2009
True, we would probably group up. That being said, since im fat and old, I will definately carry a long range weapon, "I'll cover you guys from here while you go forage". heh. Will probably be plenty of people carying short and medium range weapons- SKS, mossbergs, 870's, ak47's etc. IF everyone is carying up-close scatter guns, you can easily get the tactical advantage by geting "on top of a hill". The good-old-boy deer hunter in his neck of the woods can easily become a sniper. Heck, they already know about long range bulled drop, camouflage, tracking, altitude advantage, etc..
When was the last time you went to the range?

Posted:  11/22/2008 12:34 AM #14725
wildmanofwichita


Joined: 12/12/2006
Posts: 796
Last Post: 5/13/2010
wyte &; Jeff,

Did you read one of my earlier post's about "Organization" in another thread? Another thing you all are forgetting is you can not hide from FLIR, even if you have ACUPAT/MARPAT fatigues; so FLIR equipped BO "Cats" will rule the night; unless the LEW's are packing FLIR too.......... :? :?

Shalom and Godspeed
"Dissent is the Highest Form of Patriotism." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Those That OWN the Country, Ought to Govern It" (John Jay, 1st U.S. Supreme Court Justice)

Posted:  11/22/2008 7:13 PM #14749
wytelitening


Joined: 10/11/2005
Posts: 1592
Last Post: 11/22/2008
Hmm, now you got me thinking w.m.-----
With guns we are "citizens"---Without we are "subjects"----

Posted:  11/22/2008 11:56 PM #14727
Jeffrey


Joined: 7/19/2007
Posts: 488
Last Post: 12/18/2009
I hear that the 16 inch Socom II loses a lot of accuracy.
When was the last time you went to the range?

Posted:  11/23/2008 12:04 AM #14728
marco529


Joined: 8/25/2008
Posts: 132
Last Post: 11/25/2009
You might want to remember that passing the word around if it comes a STORM . Theyre are not enough L.E.'s or ANG to go to everybodies house at the same time , because the networks might not give us that story!
DAMN THE TORPEDOES , FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!

Posted:  11/23/2008 2:15 PM #14748
xsapper


Joined: 2/6/2007
Posts: 67
Last Post: 7/9/2009
wildmanofwichita-wyte &; Jeff,

Did you read one of my earlier post's about "Organization" in another thread? Another thing you all are forgetting is you can not hide from FLIR, even if you have ACUPAT/MARPAT fatigues; so FLIR equipped BO "Cats" will rule the night; unless the LEW's are packing FLIR too.......... :? :?

Shalom and Godspeed


Maybe you can't hide from flir, but you can disrupt your heat signature so they won't id you as a human.
Once I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

If it's fun it must be illegal!

Posted:  11/23/2008 4:57 PM #14750
Marksman


Joined: 6/9/2008
Posts: 47
Last Post: 4/12/2009
I have heard of such methods for hiding heat signal, but it must be done nearly perfectly, as they are very sensitive...which means money and latest technology. I don't even know if I could get specifics but I am thinking along the lines of a $1000 gillie suit, ouch.

The M1A is covered extensively in other areas, especially places like the m14 forum. My understanding is the socom 16;2 is not a very accurate gun to begin with (3-4moa) just because the parts are not particularly great, not barrel length per se. The main problem is the bullet will travel something like 300+ fps slower, which takes some punch out and requires adjustments of bullet drop. My reasoning for two guns is I would rather be as far away from a target as possible, and M1A's are not inherently very accurate. So my iron sight battle rifle is probably good to about 300 yds max, with my sub moa bolt with optic good to at least twice that...all debatable, of course.

Posted:  11/24/2008 12:34 AM #14753
mongoose


Joined: 9/7/2008
Posts: 18
Last Post: 4/12/2009
don't know where you are getting your m-1-a / m-14 info regarding accuracy, but... in april. 1967 at fort jackson s.c. with a rack grade// non accurized m-14 { .308 / 7.62x51mm } i qualified expert out to 500 meters..as did many others on same day at same range.

Posted:  11/24/2008 2:13 AM #14754
Marksman


Joined: 6/9/2008
Posts: 47
Last Post: 4/12/2009
Well I may be a little on the harsh side, that was probably a USGI m14, which from what I've heard does substantially better than Springfield M1A, due to tighter tolerances and the like.

Posted:  11/24/2008 2:35 AM #14755
Marksman


Joined: 6/9/2008
Posts: 47
Last Post: 4/12/2009
Here ya go:

http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory24.php

This way we don't have to argue...

Apologies, maybe I should have said with match ammo and a good scope 2moa is obtainable, but with the very open irons and my surplus stuff, 4moa is just fine...

Anyway a little off topic

Posted:  11/24/2008 3:08 AM #14756
wildmanofwichita


Joined: 12/12/2006
Posts: 796
Last Post: 5/13/2010
A Springfield "Mil-Spec" M-14 chambered in NATO 7.62x51/.308 with a good scope; that is an ideal weapon, they are good out to 800 yards without breaking a sweat....... 8) 8)

Shalom and Godspeed
"Dissent is the Highest Form of Patriotism." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Those That OWN the Country, Ought to Govern It" (John Jay, 1st U.S. Supreme Court Justice)

Posted:  11/24/2008 2:49 PM #14751
Blake


Joined: 9/22/2006
Posts: 414
Last Post: 3/28/2009
I understand that the short barrel of the Socom II will make you lose velocity and some accuracy. But that shouldn't matter after all I thought we were talking about engaging man sized targets? IMHO, If you can't hit a man at 300yds.+ with optics you need to try either re-sighting in your rifle or more target practice. even with 4MOA if you can shoot half straight you'll hit em' or at least scare the hell out of him.
A firearm is only as dangerous as the user wants it to be.

Posted:  11/24/2008 3:08 PM #14752
bapa


Joined: 11/6/2006
Posts: 657
Last Post: 4/29/2009
I agree that a man sized target at 300 yds with a scope should be an easy shot. However, let's look at reality. How many targets might you expect to see where the entire person is in the open? Might be a better probability to see a persons head, or maybe the upper torso, might be just a leg or an arm sticking out from cover. At 300 yds, I want a rifle that can hit a 6" balloon every shot without fail. Don't under-estimate your enemy. They want to live just as much as you do. Make each and every shot count.
NAHC Life Member
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.
64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday

Posted:  11/24/2008 5:39 PM #14747
Blake


Joined: 9/22/2006
Posts: 414
Last Post: 3/28/2009
Not to say that there is anything wrong with your statement bapa, but think about it. In reality if that kind of thing goes down how many people are you going to have with you? If your alone your not going to want a 1-sub MOA bolt-action rifle. You'll want one gun that can effectively engage targets at various ranges from 50yds. to +300yds. And that's why I was suggesting a .308 carbine. It's got a short barrel for CQC and easy manuverability, But the .308 has the capabilites to effectively engage a target at combat ranges when fired from a 16" barrel with proper optics.

On the other hand if you do have a SHTF Team assembled (sort of a Special Operations Team), you can afford to have one man armed with a combat shotgun, one or two more with tactical carbines, and yourself with a long range rifle.

But you also have to consider the terrain you'll be fighting in...so really there is no way to be totally prepared for any situation that you may encounter.

That's just my two cents. And to be truthful I don't have a M1A Socom (I would love to have one) so I'll just have to make do with what I've got. But I'm saying that If was trying to go Rambo on a **** load of LEWs I would want to be armed with a properly outfitted M1A Socom and a H&;K USP .45 full size instead of trying to carry three or four different guns and BO gear.
A firearm is only as dangerous as the user wants it to be.

Posted:  11/25/2008 10:21 AM #14746
marco529


Joined: 8/25/2008
Posts: 132
Last Post: 11/25/2009
I partially agree with blake , but for all them poor folk in the city carring around a 9lb rifle and about 23 lbs of ammo and mage (ie. 200 rds of .308) along with everything else might be a bit much , thats why it all falls back to equipping yourself with the weapon that best suits your needs . A friend of mine lives in a "city by the bay" and he preffers his "customised" marlin camp 9 to all others . As for myself I plan to use my SKS , it has a 4x scope on it and with 5 20rd mags . It's acurate to 400yrds , will go thru a steel plate , and I can comfretably carry 300rds if necessary.
DAMN THE TORPEDOES , FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!

Posted:  11/25/2008 3:20 PM #14745
copenhagen chewer


Joined: 2/22/2008
Posts: 78
Last Post: 1/11/2009
id be taking my yugo sks with a bunch of loose ammo. i only have one 30 rd clip and the factory 10 rd mag. besides that, my 30/30 is the only other option. i'd be carrying my glock 40 as a side arm, but i think i'd be myself. none of my friends even own a gun let alone thinking about a SHTF thing happening.

Posted:  11/26/2008 12:24 AM #14720
Marksman


Joined: 6/9/2008
Posts: 47
Last Post: 4/12/2009
Well first I wouldn't count a sidearm as 'weapon', at least how we are getting to it here. I would never purposefully choose a pistol, if you engage an enemy you should either be farther away or a little quieter about it. So it is a defensive, not an offensive one. But still good to have around, and luckily that in a holster and a hundred rounds in a bag doesn't way all that much. I was recently re-reading an article about Simo Hahya yesterday that puts this into good perspective. He killed over 550 russians, in 3 months no less, with a machine gun and bolt action rifle. Now this was a little before the accurized semi (or full) auto rifle, but shows how it is difficult to find an 'all purpose' weapon. So, being that I am 25 I wouldn't terribly mind having a bolt action strapped to my back, and being the same cartridge as my main gun helps the weight. If he could do it on skis in the winter, I should be able to as well. But in my book misses are not acceptable, mainly because I don't have a silencer so after the first shot your position is given away. Yes one battle gun would be nice, but I would want it as accurate as possible and cannot afford a 3 or 4k M14 (+scope and goodies). We need to give ourselves some credit guys, because for all we know a SHTF scenario could be a martian invasion, so preparation for all these variables could drive one nuts. Analyze every detail, but remember you are already about 100 steps ahead of the next guy (who is totally screwed IMO)...

Posted:  11/26/2008 2:31 AM #14719
Jeffrey


Joined: 7/19/2007
Posts: 488
Last Post: 12/18/2009
Hence, the sidearm--to prevent the panicked dumbasses (that are five feet away) from taking the rifle off your back. While the shotgun is very formidable at short ranges, I think the agility of a good pistol trumps.
When was the last time you went to the range?

Posted:  11/26/2008 1:47 PM #14717
MacD37


Joined: 7/17/2008
Posts: 52
Last Post: 5/4/2009
For a total SHTF sittuation, where all law breaks down, there is no way for a single person to be prepared for all combat sittuations! When one must carry all the firearms, and ammo himself, he will be severly limited to what he can prepare for.

If by SHTF you mean something like protecting your home base, then you can prepare better, and in this type of thing all types of firearms, knives, and clubs are important. Inside a normal home a shotgun is a real handy thing to have. A handgun, is always a nice thein to use when things get close and personal, and should,IMO, always be carried in addtion to any other weapon you have. The hand gun is one thing that can be used very well in very close quarters, where a rifle or shotgun is simply too big.

If you need to "GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE" so to speak, and well designed vehicle is one of the best protections you can have The escape vehicle needs to be fast, and 4X4, with a large capacity fuel tank, and spare tires, always carring you SHTF survival kit to give you time to set up a defense where ever you end up, and get you away again if need be. A long range rifle is fine for heading off a sneak attack before he gets close, but when his buddies get closer, you need firepower, cover, and concealment. Firearms are good tools, but they are no all that is needed to fight an extended civil war, as a family unit. How about medical supplies, that may be needed, How about binocs, and a GPS unit, clothing for all seasons, and at least three kinds of camo clothing, for every member of the family. Stock pileing ammo in many places where it can be accessed no matter which dirrection you need to run, or hold out.

All the suggestions given in this thread, are good ones, but none are a ONE SIZE FITS ALL solution when the SHTF! You'll be lucky if you get out of town without being killed or wounded. Street fighting is the most dangerous warfare you will ever experience, and you better hope you never have to see it, no matter how well you THINK you are prepared! There will be no re-supply coming from behind the lines! :shock:
Mac >>>===(x)===>
If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I have been to see the elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa

DRSS


Posted:  11/26/2008 5:41 PM #14718
Marksman


Joined: 6/9/2008
Posts: 47
Last Post: 4/12/2009
Yeah I can agree with mac, which is why I said cover the bases and do your best...to get back to weapons real quick a buddy of mine wanted a 'pre 2nd ban' gun...and i recommended a R-25 (partly because it was one of the last in the store...). It is the same as a DPMS, and for around $1500 you get a .308 semi-auto rifle capable of well under sub-moa accuracy and a 20 rnd clip, with a top rail, a good combo (and in camo!<-thats a joke). Well my loyalty lies with the m14, I've heard that AR's get better accuracy out of the box...

Posted:  12/8/2008 2:53 PM #14722
Pav56C


Joined: 4/24/2008
Posts: 16
Last Post: 1/10/2009
To who ever said it was that said that a pistol should not be considered a weapon because it is not an "offensive weapon" is completely wrong.

First point, how many people here are planning on going on the offensive, not I.

Second point, ever notice how SWAT and military always carry pistols, well there just may be some method to their madness. A pistol can be kept on the body at all times. A rifle, eh, not so much. Room clearing: Pistols, being shorter, are much easier to manuver in CQB. How about climbing a ladder, are you gonna be able to climb a ladder with a rifle ready to fire as you approach the top? Doing a medivac drag, carring a sheild, how about driving a vehicle, not easy shooting even a carbine from inside a vehicle. And prob the most important would be running dry. It takes far less time to draw a sidearm to than reload a primary weapon, especially those of you using stripper clips with your SKSs.

I do agree a pistol is not my first choice for a fight. But....

In the words of Clint Smith (check him out on youtube) "The best gun for defense is the one that you have".

Posted:  12/8/2008 11:16 PM #14723
ole dirty


Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 66
Last Post: 3/28/2009
Subject: .
in a shtf situation your best defence would be not being detected. but if you have to fight you'll need something with some firepower. don't know if any of you have been shot at or not but when the bullets are flying people keep their heads down if they want to keep them with no holes. that will give you the chance to evade, especially if your by yourself!
thuggin and buggin, dat's how ole dirty roll!

Posted:  12/11/2008 10:06 PM #14758
Texan Raven


Joined: 5/22/2007
Posts: 411
Last Post: 1/9/2013
Given the SHTF scenario that has hit the US as of Election Day, I have stopped buying ammunition. I am now buying ONLY reloading components to MAKE ammunition. What is the point of buying 1,000 rds of this or 500 rds of that if you can't reload it when it is gone?

Posted:  12/11/2008 10:17 PM #14759
mongoose


Joined: 9/7/2008
Posts: 18
Last Post: 4/12/2009
Subject: Harsh reality for SHTF weapons.
hey dirty, been **** at &; missed, but shot at &; hit...spent gooly part of late 60's in s.e.asia....keep yer head low, &; keep movin' ... if they can't see ya' they have trouble hittin' ya'/// reload everything//waste nothing...

Posted:  12/12/2008 3:34 PM #14760
General Protection Fault


Joined: 5/21/2007
Posts: 74
Last Post: 4/10/2009
Texan Raven-Given the SHTF scenario that has hit the US as of Election Day, I have stopped buying ammunition. I am now buying ONLY reloading components to MAKE ammunition. What is the point of buying 1,000 rds of this or 500 rds of that if you can't reload it when it is gone?

I've stopped buying ammo, and I've started buying dry and canned food, and warm clothing. I'm also going to be saving a little extra for some water purifiers and equipment for preserving food. No sense in having the ammo, if I starve or freeze before getting a chance to use it.

Probably I won't end up needing any of it (HOPEFULLY I won't end up needing any of it), but I really don't feel comfortable without it at this point. And I never considered myself a doom-and-gloom end-of-the-world survival-nut :?

Posted:  12/12/2008 5:15 PM #14757
Blake


Joined: 9/22/2006
Posts: 414
Last Post: 3/28/2009
Well to tell you the truth, if **** gets that bad I would rather just go ahead and die than live in a post apocalyptic world that is sure to see a nuclear houlocost before to long after that anyways.
A firearm is only as dangerous as the user wants it to be.

Posted:  12/12/2008 10:15 PM #14765
Jeffrey


Joined: 7/19/2007
Posts: 488
Last Post: 12/18/2009
Blake, you dont have any children, do you?
When was the last time you went to the range?

Posted:  12/13/2008 1:32 AM #14761
Texan Raven


Joined: 5/22/2007
Posts: 411
Last Post: 1/9/2013
Jeffrey, Blake may be right. Do you want your kids to grow up in an irradiated world, scrambling for whatever scraps they can find? Blake- never forget.... DEO VINDICE

Posted:  12/13/2008 2:07 PM #14763
Jeffrey


Joined: 7/19/2007
Posts: 488
Last Post: 12/18/2009
I want my kids to grow up in the best world possible.
When was the last time you went to the range?

Posted:  12/13/2008 4:24 PM #14779
Blake


Joined: 9/22/2006
Posts: 414
Last Post: 3/28/2009
No I do not I am 18 and not married yet. And to tell you the truth I have been wondering if I ever want to have kids, the reason being that this world is on a downward spiral and I don't believe it's ever going to get better. So I don't want to have kids that are going to grow up in a half destroyed war torn world fighting just for survival, and it may be that way sooner than you think...
A firearm is only as dangerous as the user wants it to be.

Posted:  12/14/2008 11:51 PM #14782
marco529


Joined: 8/25/2008
Posts: 132
Last Post: 11/25/2009
This seems like a whole new thread fellows , but I'll wiegh in . As far as my kids go theyre the only thing I'll ever have to show I was here so no I wouldnt trade them for anything . There is one thing to consider about the future , it's all in what you make it , in SHTF the only thing that counts is being around afterwords . It's in our nature to live nomatter what , to live and reproduce . And blake is right the worlds not getting any better but at the same time our ability to deal with a fluid situation allows us to deal with our everchanging world.
DAMN THE TORPEDOES , FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!

Posted:  1/2/2009 10:40 PM #14858
GreyOne


Joined: 1/2/2009
Posts: 8
Last Post: 1/2/2009
OP thinks too much has been posted about shotguns, but for many the shotgun is the perfect
"bugging in" weapon, as well as ongoing home defense weapon.
To those planning to bug out, just remember all the guns and ammo you can carry will last about
_one_ serious firefight. Without military type resupply, you can burn through an entire basic load
real quickly. If you have a place to go where you can depend on trusted friends to help with an
integrated defense of a base area, then you may have a use for all the weapons and ammo. :)

Meanwhile, unless you have pre stocked your destination, you are going to need to carry food, water,
shelter, clothing, meds, etc. in addition to your weapons. Now is the time to start carrying that pack
on a few walks, and work out how much you can carry and retain any true mobility.
Nemo me impune lacessit!

Posted:  1/9/2009 1:21 AM #14879
UpstateNY


Joined: 1/7/2009
Posts: 3
Last Post: 1/10/2009
Agree with Wildman, important to take into consideration your situational surroundings as well as the practicality of what you wish to carry...humping a couple weapons and a lot of ammo on a web vest or LBE or rucksack can get pretty tiring for those not used to it...I still don't know how the infantry guys and gals do it every day...

HooAh!
The Survivalist
SurvivalSSHTF@gmail.com
http://survivalsshtf.blogspot.com/

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