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Posted:  5/27/2014 11:15 AM #41848
CTD Blogger


Joined: 7/14/2009
Posts: 10828
Last Post: 8/20/2014
Subject: Gun-Wielding Patriots Keep Getting Kicked Out of Family Restaurants
(thewire.com) Arit John-America became a little less free after Chili's and Sonic recently decided that it's not a man's God-given right to order an applewood bacon-topped burger with a semi-automatic rifle strapped to his back. The two restaurants joined Chipotle and several others in banning guns after videos surfaced of activists trying to promote the Second Amendment by brining the guns to dinner. The plan kind of backfired. As seen in two May 19 videos obtained by  Mother Jones, the San Antonio chapter of Open Carry Texas was refused service at a local Sonic and Chili's. The gun rights activists complain about the people they've made uncomfortable (one woman says they're "dumb asses"), interact with at least one kid who thinks they're cool, and describe what it feels like to be excluded for trying to exercise their constitutional rights. "Dang, that's the second time in a row," one frustrated would-be diner says after being kicked out of Sonic. "I feel like I'm a kid again. My mom won't let me do nothing." 

 

Open Carry Texas and other gun rights groups also acknowledged that the strategy wasn't exactly PR friendly, and encouraged activists to stop bringing long guns into chain restaurants in a joint statement. "We have decided the prudent path, to further our goals, is to immediately cease taking long guns into corporate businesses unless invited."

Members of Open Carry Texas will likely be more than happy to take their business elsewhere. At several points throughout both videos the men joke that the restaurants aren't safe for them, but also argue that they're protecting their kids. As usual, they argue the key to stopping gun violence is more guns — that's why right-leaning activists have latched on to reports of anti-gun restaurants being robbed by armed robbers

TownHall and other conservative sites picked up a report from Click2Houston that a Jack in the Box was robbed three times after enacting a no-guns policy. "What will it take for the CEO of Jack in the Box and other companies to realize that gun-free zones can actually do more harm than good to their businesses, employees, and customers?" TownHall wondered. It might help if guns would stop accidentally going off and killing people.



Posted:  5/27/2014 2:17 PM #41849
horselips


Joined: 5/2/2012
Posts: 2062
Last Post: 8/19/2014
Hopefully, as more open-carry advocates disassociate themselves from those carrying rifles and shotguns into eateries, this silly exhibitionism will pass. How low must one's IQ be to not comprehend that concealed carry, now available to the majority of citizens nationwide, is the obvious solution to personal self-defense.

Posted:  5/28/2014 2:12 PM #41866
ADisabledVet


Joined: 5/28/2014
Posts: 3
Last Post: 5/29/2014
horselips... I've noticed your post here as in others about "open carrying" in which it seems you don't know what it is you're talking about. For example... you say people should stick to carrying a rev or some hand gun secured in a holster... Open carry of hand guns in TX is against the law... you know - go to jail if you do that. TX allows open carry of long guns. Would you care to guess why they choose long guns to carry? Please think about that for a minute if you need to. The law may be different where you live. I've read up on the Chipotle rest. case that's mentioned... The store mgr says... He was asked if they could come in to get something to eat... He said YES. That means they were invited to come in. Notice in the statement from Open Carry TX... not to go into restaurants they are not invited into. The two "new guys" to the group asked someone to take their pics since this was their first "march" and they posted it to facebook. THEN someone from MOMs copied and sent it to the headquarters and cried. Headquarters did not ban anyone from coming in. Some others have asked why would anyone carry a long gun around and into a rest even... I used to ride my MC to the range all the time. If I got hungry, I stopped to eat Da Da. BTW... the open carry of long guns is to get open carry of handguns approved. Show me what you're doing to help. You sure aren't finding out what's going on before you post, you're just re-acting to what MOM's want you to.

Posted:  5/28/2014 2:21 PM #41867
hot_lips_banana


Joined: 6/28/2005
Posts: 1336
Last Post: 8/8/2014
ADisabledVet-
 
However, carrying a long gun into an establishment that sells alcohol is illegal. Chipotle sells beer. 
CTD Forum Moderator

Posted:  5/28/2014 2:59 PM #41868
ADisabledVet


Joined: 5/28/2014
Posts: 3
Last Post: 5/29/2014
pssssst..... right from the law...... please read section (C) (e) Except as provided by Subsection (f) or (i), the commission or administrator shall cancel an original or renewal permit if it is found, after notice and hearing, that the permittee knowingly allowed a person to possess a firearm in a building on the licensed premises. This subsection does not apply to a person: (1) who holds a security officer commission issued under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, if: (A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as a security officer; (B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and (C) the weapon is in plain view; Thank you for playing. Forgot to add this also... because the section above states unless covered by this... 46.035 (b)(1) Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place. (b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person: (1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

Posted:  5/28/2014 4:11 PM #41870
hot_lips_banana


Joined: 6/28/2005
Posts: 1336
Last Post: 8/8/2014
pssssst... right from the law:
 
"Although an individual may have the legal authority to openly carry certain firearms in public, a business that is licensed to sell or serve alcoholic beverages is prohibited by state law from allowing rifles or shotguns in the building."

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/home/press_releases/2013/20130906.asp
 
And here: 
"If you go into a business and you see the following sign, please do NOT openly carry a firearm into the building. The business could lose its license and the owner could also be charged. These signs usually have the blue lettering while the 51% signs have the red lettering. While they don’t prevent YOU from going to the business, their license require that they ask you to leave."

 
We are discussing the open carry of long guns, not the concealed carry of handguns.
CTD Forum Moderator

Posted:  5/29/2014 1:23 PM #41877
ADisabledVet


Joined: 5/28/2014
Posts: 3
Last Post: 5/29/2014
Just because the section of law being discussed is written in the handgun law... doesn't mean parts of other laws have to rewrite it in their own laws... that is why it is referenced by number and section as in it's own section of law. Again it states.... unless the person is on the premises of a business described by Section 46.035(b)(1), Penal Code... That section of law describes restaurants which get their income from less than 51% of Alcohol sales.

Posted:  5/29/2014 3:00 PM #41880
hot_lips_banana


Joined: 6/28/2005
Posts: 1336
Last Post: 8/8/2014

I'm not exactly clear on what you are trying to say, ADisabledVet. The issue at hand is the open carry of rifles in Texas. It is not legal to openly carry a long gun into a restaurant that serves alcohol—period. It doesn't matter if the restaurant’s alcohol sales are 1% or 100%.

If the manager of the Chipotle did allow the two men with rifles to enter his store while carrying, than that manager was breaking the law. Recently, Chili’s said no to open carry of rifles—as they should per the law.

Now Wendy’s, Sonic, Starbucks and Jack in the Box on the other hand…

CTD Forum Moderator

Posted:  5/29/2014 3:23 PM #41885
ADisabledVet


Joined: 5/28/2014
Posts: 3
Last Post: 5/29/2014
Unless you understand the - unless in the law you are talking about - you will not understand. I can point you to everything there... I can't make you understand it.

Posted:  5/31/2014 9:57 AM #41902
John2


Joined: 5/31/2014
Posts: 1
Last Post: 5/31/2014
I can understand a gun rack in your truck, you have a rifle in the gun rack when you go out to your ranch, just in case you run across a varmint or two.
 
Why though would you strap a rifle or shotgun on your back and walk into a restaurant with it? Concealed carry is fine unless of course you carry into a place where it is illegal, but I have never had a problem with any restaurant I wanted to go to for a meal. I do not think it is a good idea to try to force Open Carry by actually carrying a long gun into any establishment. You are asking for trouble since it does cause customers in that establishment to become concerned for their own safety when they see that. Especially if it is an AR type gun. On the ranch fine, in a restaurant it is overkill. Instead of forcing the government to grant a right to open carry anywhere, you might find that it has the opposite effect.


Posted:  5/31/2014 11:21 AM #41904
Texas Gunslinger


Joined: 5/31/2014
Posts: 1
Last Post: 5/31/2014
@import url(http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Forums/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css); @import url(http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Forums/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css); I agree with John2.  Fortunately I can carry 24/7 under Public Law 108-277.  I haven't seen anyone yet here in my area carrying a rifle into any establishment other than a gun shop.   I think its a bad idea.  One shouldn't push the concept of "Open Carry" to extremes.  Open carry I think harkens back to the days of yore.  But even in the 1860s not everyone carried a weapon upon their person.   Rifles and shotguns were pretty much the norm and they were normally left in their scabbards or next to the seat on the wagon.  So- - - - -- just because an individuals state allows open carry, folks shouldn't push it.  I can remember the day when in rural America, most pick-ups had a gun rack and usually there was an old 30.30 racked along with a shotgun.  No one thought anything about it as it was "Normal" to do so.  However, we are in a different world now and a different generation likes to squeak the loudest.    We have politicians in office that only pass laws to suit themselves and their opinions.  Most have no concept of what the difference is  between a semi-automatic rifle and a full automatic rifle.  They are "Gun Ignorant" so to speak.  Therefore, the open carrying of a rifle or shotgun into any establishment other than a gun shop is pretty dumb.  Then even into a gun shop is pretty dumb also, thats what carrying cases are for.  Just saying! 

Posted:  6/1/2014 3:11 PM #41906
Old Law Dog


Joined: 12/13/2011
Posts: 3
Last Post: 6/1/2014
Open Carry of handguns became law here in Oklahoma back on 11/01/12. We haven't had a single issue. I open carry a Glock handgun every day in a Black Hawk Serpa II holster and have never been asked to show my permit nor have I been asked to leave a business. Prior to passage of the OC law, one of the passive aggressive ways of supporting OC was for people to wear empty holsters OC on their belts. The general public saw the empty gun holsters, asked what they were about... and it gave pro-open carry supporters a chance to talk to strangers about the proposed OC law and urge them to contact their representatives in support of the proposed law. OC passed with overwhelming votes in our legislature. 
 
People with long guns in Texas need to remember, it isn't a constitutional right they are defending when they go into a private business with their rifles & shotguns.. it is the private property owner's right to decide if guns will be open carried on their property... that they are placing at issue. Every business in Texas [and any other state] has the absolute right to decide if they want to allow or disallow open or conceal carry of handguns or long guns on their property. When trying to organize a OC protest, they ALWAYS need to secure the permission of the business first.  As it is, all these guys & gals are doing is getting the business owners to slam the door on any handgun open carry down the road.


Posted:  6/6/2014 11:18 AM #41979
CTD Blogger


Joined: 7/14/2009
Posts: 10828
Last Post: 8/20/2014
Subject: The Thin Line Between Rights and Responsibilities
From USCCA: BY TIM SCHMIDT - USCCA FOUNDER-Let me preface today's conversation by painting a picture of what I wish our country looked like today: I wish it was commonplace for people like you and me to stop by our local coffee shops carrying AR-15s over our shoulders. I wish that we could decide what's right for us and our families without worrying about following the rules laid down by a too-powerful government. I wish people wouldn't fear guns, and I wish people wouldn't alienate the good guys who carry them.

Unfortunately, reality is a stark contrast to what I've just described. But it gives us something to fight for, at least.

And speaking of fighting for something….

You've probably already heard the latest on the "open carry" front, and let me tell you—it is indeed a touchy subject.

This past weekend, an open carry and pro-gun rights group in Texas made the news when they gathered in a Home Depot parking lot with their semi-automatic rifles with the (good) intention of rallying support for their cause.

This was the second time in as many months that Open Carry Texas and other open carry advocates conducted similar demonstrations outside local Texas businesses.

According to Fox News, "Sonic, Chipotle, and Chili's joined Starbucks, Wendy's, Jack in the Box, and Applebee's in banning firearms from their premises after protests by Open Carry Texas."

Given what we know about open carry—and the public controversy it often stirs up—it's not a huge surprise to see local businesses reacting exactly the opposite of what responsibly armed Americans would hope for.

But what you probably didn't expect was the NRA's response to Open Carry Texas' very public demonstrations:

"Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners," the NRA wrote. "That's not the Texas way. And that's certainly not the NRA way." [Fox News]

As a result, many members of Open Carry Texas—who are also members of the NRA—have renounced their affiliation with the NRA, some going so far as to cut up their membership cards.

Since that original statement, the NRA has backtracked a bit, saying their comments regarding Open Carry Texas and their appeal to them and other open carry groups to dial back their public demonstrations was "a mistake."

Perhaps some of you are curious about my take—and the USCCA's take—on the matter of open carry and about this specific incident.

First and foremost, let me be very clear when I say that we believe that all U.S. citizens should be allowed to legally exercise the rights affirmed by our Constitution. We support open carry in the places where it is legal to do so, and of course we believe it should be legal everywhere.

But there is a very fine line here when it comes to rights and responsibilities. You know as well as I do that having the right to do something is different than accepting responsibility for that thing.

We have the right to keep and bear arms.

But we also have the responsibility to ensure that by exercising our right to keep and bear arms, we are portraying ourselves and our fellow gun owners in the best possible light.

In a blog post just a few weeks ago, Kevin Michalowski pointed out the difference between government mandated requirements for training and our actual need for training. We might revolt against the government "requiring" the amount of training they think is best for us, but at the end of the day...WE are the ones who must determine what training we NEED.

I think that same logic applies here.

So while we would never criticize a group like Open Carry Texas for exercising their god-given rights, we must remember that in the open carry debate—and more generally, in the whole gun debate, there are three distinct positions: pro, anti, and neutral. Actions like those in Texas tend to push the neutral people to the anti-side (as evidenced by the restaurant chains' bans).

Our goal is to present firearms ownership in such a way that encourages the neutral side to join the ranks of the pro-gunners. There are plenty of effective and responsible ways to do that. Converging on a store with a group of people armed with rifles is not one of them.

And so I urge you:

Don't take the easy way out!

Instead of strapping rifles on our backs and hitting the streets (where our message would likely be lost), let's think about those effective and responsible ways to make our statement—to help return this great nation to the kind of place our forefathers fought to build and that we wish it could be again.

For me, personally?

My statement is making the decision to carry concealed. My statement is making the decision to do whatever it takes to protect my family. And ultimately, my statement is educating, training, and insuring responsibly armed Americans to do the same.

What will your statement be?

Take Care and Stay Safe,

Tim Schmidt
Publisher - Concealed Carry Report
USCCA Founder



Posted:  6/6/2014 1:53 PM #41981
horselips


Joined: 5/2/2012
Posts: 2062
Last Post: 8/19/2014
Open Carrying a handgun is one thing, carrying a rifle into a business is something else entirely. It is no more appropriate than carrying an ironing board, a vacuum cleaner or a pair of skis into a restaurant. All legal to own, all legal to transport as the owner sees fit, and all completely out of place. So is going into an office or business pushing a lawn mower, rolling in a spare car tire, or walking in with your prize 4H Club hog. There is a time and a place for everything, and rifles and shotguns don't belong in commercial establishments and eateries.

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