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Posted:  1/21/2013 8:26 AM #36127
CTD Blogger


Joined: 7/14/2009
Posts: 10012
Last Post: 4/17/2014
Subject: Groupon Removes Pro Gun, Pro Hunting Deals & Listings – Boycott Groupon
Austin, TX -(Ammoland.com)- An Austin-based concealed handgun instructor has called for a nationwide boycott of Groupon, the popular deal-of-the-day website that offers discounted gift certificates on behalf of local businesses. Michael Cargill, the owner of Central Texas Gun Works, says his contract with Groupon was abruptly terminated Friday morning, after Groupon founder and CEO Andrew Mason decided the company would no longer associate with any business related to firearms. Cargill, who ran for Austin City Constable (Precinct 2) in the 2012 Democratic primary, says he was astounded that Groupon executives might object to promoting the Texas concealed handgun course–a course designed by the Texas Department of Public Safety and mandated by state law for anyone wishing to obtain a Texas concealed handgun license.

 

“What reasonable person could have a problem with gun owners choosing to undergo safety training and proficiency testing?” he asked. “It’s as if the people at Groupon equate anyone who believes in the Second Amendment with the armed monsters who occasionally make headlines.”

When his appeals to Groupon fell on deaf ears, Cargill settled on an alternative tactic.

In his words, “If the executives at Groupon want nothing to do with supporters of the Second Amendment, supporters of the Second Amendment should want nothing to do with Groupon.

That’s why I’m calling on every American who believes in the right of safe, lawful gun ownership to join me in refusing to hand over even one cent to an organization that clearly has no respect for those of us who–whether for recreation or personal protection–choose to exercise a constitutional right.”

Cargill says he will coordinate with the many gun rights organizations with which he has longstanding relationships, to ensure that the boycott extends beyond the Lone Star State.

ACTION: Call Groupon at, 1 (888) 375-5777 Monday-Friday, 9am-5pm CST, and tell them you will not use there services till they support the Second Amendment and firearms related goods and services.

ABOUT Michael Cargill
Michael Cargill is a certified Texas concealed handgun instructor and a small business owner who is active in both state and local politics. As an advocate for fair-minded gun laws, he has become a fixture at the State Capitol and on local television. In 2012, he ran in the Democratic primary for Austin Precinct 2 Constable and forced the incumbent into a runoff race. During the 2012 presidential race, he served as a featured speaker at a rally for Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson.



Posted:  1/21/2013 11:32 AM #36135
horselips


Joined: 5/2/2012
Posts: 1755
Last Post: 4/17/2014
I LOVE IT! Cargill made his bed by choosing to be a Democrat instead of an American, now let him lie in it. BEHOLD, Mr. Cargill, as Groupon demonstrates the orthodoxy of liberalism. Now that you've been b!tch -slapped, I hope it hurts. LEARN, Mr. Cargill, that you cannot be a Democrat and believe in liberty. REALIZE, Mr. Cargill, that you cannot squander time and effort on narcissistic third parties that only insure the election of the very candidates they oppose the most. GROW UP, Mr. Cargill, accept political reality, and work within it. You must CHOOSE, Mr. Cargill, and I hope your enterprise, which your Party's leader said you did not build, suffers for your folly.


Posted:  1/21/2013 2:38 PM #36137
Long Range


Joined: 12/8/2010
Posts: 48
Last Post: 2/12/2013
Posted by:horselips
"I LOVE IT! Cargill made his bed by choosing to be a Democrat instead of an American, now let him lie in it. BEHOLD, Mr. Cargill, as Groupon demonstrates the orthodoxy of liberalism. Now that you've been b!tch -slapped, I hope it hurts. LEARN, Mr. Cargill, that you cannot be a Democrat and believe in liberty. REALIZE, Mr. Cargill, that you cannot squander time and effort on narcissistic third parties that only insure the election of the very candidates they oppose the most. GROW UP, Mr. Cargill, accept political reality, and work within it. You must CHOOSE, Mr. Cargill, and I hope your enterprise, which your Party's leader said you did not build, suffers for your folly."
WOW! Just WOW!
Long Distance, the next best thing to being there.

Posted:  1/21/2013 6:30 PM #36138
8uLiebr


Joined: 10/29/2012
Posts: 28
Last Post: 1/29/2013
Posted by:horselips
"
choosing to be a Democrat instead of an American
"
I didn't know these were mutually exclusive. Thank you for this civics lesson!


Posted:  1/21/2013 7:28 PM #36140
horselips


Joined: 5/2/2012
Posts: 1755
Last Post: 4/17/2014
you're welcome.


Posted:  1/23/2013 3:04 PM #36181
8uLiebr


Joined: 10/29/2012
Posts: 28
Last Post: 1/29/2013
Posted by:horselips
"
Cargill made his bed by choosing to be a Democrat instead of an American ...
 
"
Most Democrats would probably be surprised to learn they cannot be Americans. Are there any other groups that should know they have been disqualified for citizenship?


Posted:  1/23/2013 8:28 PM #36183
horselips


Joined: 5/2/2012
Posts: 1755
Last Post: 4/17/2014
Perhaps quite a few. But you'll probably find that their members are usually registered Democrats. Start with anybody who disagrees with this:
FOUNDING FATHER QUOTE: "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." [Samuel Adams]
 
BTW, I never said Democrats weren't qualified for citizenship - even an anchor baby popped out of an illegal alien is entitled to citizenship - I just said they weren't Americans. I meant that in the spiritual, ideological sense.


Posted:  1/24/2013 11:55 AM #36198
8uLiebr


Joined: 10/29/2012
Posts: 28
Last Post: 1/29/2013
That's a very self-serving definition.


Posted:  1/24/2013 1:03 PM #36199
whosurdaddy


Joined: 1/10/2011
Posts: 24
Last Post: 7/27/2013

It’s an accurate definition as well.



Posted:  1/27/2013 9:15 PM #36243
8uLiebr


Joined: 10/29/2012
Posts: 28
Last Post: 1/29/2013
Don't hide behind selective quotes from TRUE patriots. And drop the "spiritual, idealogical" nonsense. There is nothing spriitual in what you say. And your ideology seems to be nothing more than bullet worship. Let's have your CONCRETE DEFINITION of who deserves to be in Club America. BS like "you'll probably find that their members are usually registered Democrats" holds no water whatsoever: PROBABLY equals maybe not; USUALLY equals sometimes not. That gets us nowhere. The CONSTITUTIONAL definition of an American is a person who is born here or who has been naturalized. Is that not good enough for you?


Posted:  1/28/2013 11:10 AM #36252
horselips


Joined: 5/2/2012
Posts: 1755
Last Post: 4/17/2014
My Dear 8uLirbr, the use of conditional words like 'probably' and 'usually' only recognize that there are no absolutes, and there are exceptions to every rule. Nevertheless, their implications are clear. The terms 'spiritual' and 'ideological' are valid conditions to consider. The American Revolution was begun in support of certain principles and beliefs - among which were spiritual and ideological tenets. The Declaration of Independence argued that liberty was a divine gift, and outside the jurisdiction of government to abridge or infringe upon. It proclaimed that the Creator was superior to the state. Furthermore, the Declaration argued against overreaching government even in areas within its natural jurisdiction such as taxation, regulation, trade, legislation, military policy and the judiciary, and the failure of government to act where it ought to have in a timely and effective manner. The idea that all men are created equal before God and the law was a direct contradiction to the class system of aristocrats and commoners established in Britain and throughout Europe.
 
To be an American in a spiritual and ideological sense is to adopt these principles in their entirety. That would require, obviously, a belief in God, for without Him, the state becomes the highest power and everything, including liberty, is within its jurisdiction. The rest of it, believing in free enterprise, personal responsibility, equal justice, limited and accountable government, and religious toleration rounds out "Americanism." For convenience, one may reference the American Trinity struck into our coins - Liberty, E Pluribus Unum, and In God We Trust.
 
One need not venture far into contemporary Democratic Party thought to see an ideology completely foreign to our founding principles. Instead of E Pluribus Unum, they offer multiculturalism. Instead of Liberty, one finds support for dependence, and an unprecedented extension, concentration and consolidation of Federal power at the expense of both the States and the people. As for God, He was conspicuously absent from the Party platform until that potential public relations disaster was rectified by a ruling from the chair clearly in opposition to the voice vote at the convention. President Obama's attack on religious freedom, especially the Roman Catholic Church, via ObamaCare would be unthinkable in any other time. This administration is also happy to subvert American sovereignty through its support of numerous United Nations treaties that would subject our policies to international scrutiny and approval. Democratic Supreme Court Judges have spoken openly of considering foreign law and legal opinion in deciding cases before them, instead of the Constitution alone.
 
So, I maintain that there is a difference between the physicality of being an American, and spiritually and ideologically being an American. Yes, one only has to be born here or be naturalized to be in Club America. But just as the word "inhuman" refers to evil persons and acts that clearly are human, "UnAmerican" may be applied to anyone adhering to a foreign-inspired ideological or policy mindset. The good news is that being UnAmerican in some ways may not necessarily be bad or wrong, it is just different. No nation has an exclusive on truth and beauty. But for one to be diametrically opposed to every tradition, every principle, every belief and practice that made this country rich, powerful and great, and instead support policies that are making us poor and weak, is to invite special labeling. Hence, I offer you the choice of being an American, or being a Democrat. Vive Le Difference!


Posted:  1/28/2013 8:15 PM #36255
8uLiebr


Joined: 10/29/2012
Posts: 28
Last Post: 1/29/2013

Dear Mr. Lips,

 

To your last point first (“I offer you the choice of being an American, or being a Democrat”): Thankfully this choice is not yours to offer.

 

But let’s have a look at your statements.

·         “Cargill made his bed by choosing to be a Democrat instead of an American” Clearly you see this as a binary, unambiguous choice. But then you say “the use of conditional words like 'probably' and 'usually' only recognize that there are no absolutes.” Mr Lips, you can’t have it both ways. If there are no absolutes, then you can’t impose them on your target Cargill.
 
·         “…you cannot squander time and effort on narcissistic third parties…” implies that there are only two legitimate parties. If I am not mistaken those would be the Republicans and (gasp!) the Democrats. I think I detect an inconsistency in your political philosophy.
 
·         You state, “I never said Democrats weren't qualified for citizenship.” But you do say that Dems are not Americans. In other words, they are un-American Americans. You might study the efforts of Senator McCarthy for guidance on where to go with this line of reasoning.
 
·         You state, “The American Revolution was begun in support of certain principles and beliefs - among which were spiritual and ideological tenets.” Yes there are references to God in the founding documents. There was also a concerted effort to NOT impose religious beliefs and practices on the citizenry. Just like the founders who followed a variety of faiths, or no faith, I can be a proud and patriotic American who chooses which faith to follow or chooses to follow none without jeopardizing myself, my family or my freedoms.
 
·         You state that “To be an American in a spiritual and ideological sense is to adopt these principles in their entirety. That would require, obviously, a belief in God.” Were the atheists, Jews, Muslims and people of other non-Christian faiths who have given their lives in defense of our country and our way of life not worthy of calling themselves Americans? Your statement is, obviously, patently FALSE.
 
·         You state that “The Declaration of Independence argued that liberty was a divine gift…” True
“…and outside the jurisdiction of government to abridge or infringe upon.” False. Instead, it states that it is incumbent upon governments to ensure these rights. Here’s the quote:
 
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”
 
·         You state that “(the Declaration) proclaimed that the Creator was superior to the state.” I don’t see this. Please educate me.
 
·         You refer to “President Obama's attack on religious freedom, especially the Roman Catholic Church.” This is no attack on religious freedom. It is a requirement that any organization who accepts federal funds to deliver services must deliver ALL the services that those funds are intended to support. If an organization wants to put its religious beliefs ahead of its contracted duties, it can choose not to accept the government funds. Very simple.
 
·         You state that “This administration is also happy to subvert American sovereignty through its support of numerous United Nations treaties.” Nonsense. No treaty subjects America to foreign jurisdiction. ALL treaties entered into by a US president is subject to ratification by the Senate. And any treaty entered into by the government can be broken at the government’s discretion. It happens all the time.
 
·         You are distressed by the suggestion that “…Supreme Court Judges have spoken openly of considering foreign law and legal opinion in deciding cases before them, instead of the Constitution alone.” Anybody whi criticizes this practice demonstrates an incredible degree of narrow-mindedness. The US Constitution is certainly an incredible document but it is not the embodiment of all truth and wisdom, any more than the Bible is or the Koran. It is the height of foolishness to consciously ignore the experiences of others when choosing one’s own path to follow.
 

·         Where you see groups and leaders who are “diametrically opposed to every tradition, every principle, every belief and practice that made this country rich, powerful and great, and instead support policies that are making us poor and weak,” there are only simple and natural differences of opinion. And rather than engaging in reasoned debate between well-intended parties, you criticize and demonize others in an apparent attempt to have your way.

 

Let’s drop the hyperbole and the name calling. Let’s work together to make this nation work for all Americans, regardless of their political or religious persuasion.



Posted:  1/28/2013 11:15 PM #36258
horselips


Joined: 5/2/2012
Posts: 1755
Last Post: 4/17/2014
Quote: "Let’s drop the hyperbole and the name calling. Let’s work together to make this nation work for all Americans, regardless of their political or religious persuasion."
 
Question - Just how do people holding mutually exclusive values accomplish this unless one side abandons its principles and conforms to the demands of the other? I would be delighted to work with any Democrat or other liberal willing to abandon his principles for the sake of the country.
It is not a "difference of opinion" to say that after 4 years of totalitarian-progressive governance by President Obama and his Junta of Czars, that we are not poorer and weaker for it. It is a fact. Sadly, there is enough blame to embrace both parties. As for criticizing and demonizing, Americans are more likely to consider Democrats merely wrong, while Democrats consider Americans to be evil. Just look at the hyperbole the Democrats are employing in the gun control debate - look at what they have said about the NRA; see how they accuse gun owners of supporting mass murder and unsafe streets knowing full well that nothing could be further from the truth.
 
As for Supreme Court Justices flirting with foreign legal opinion - they are not hired to contemplate the experiences of others. They are sworn exclusively to the Constitution, right or wrong, perfect or imperfect.
 
As for the UN - apparently you have not read the onerous (and odious) clauses in the aborted Law of The Sea Treaty, or the UN Arms Treaty. Along with many other Treaties, all are structured to compel policies among the signatories, or to seek, from the UN, exemptions and allowances. The World Court is even worse. George Washington was right when he said stay clear of foreign entanglements.
 
 I was unaware the Roman Catholic Church received federal funds for employee health insurance. Maybe for some of the services it affords the poor and needy through its charities, but to my knowledge most Catholic agencies are entirely self-insured, and it is against their religious liberty that this administration has directed its fury.
 
We agree that the Declaration of Independence credits God with the gifts of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, among others, and that these rights are unalienable, and that the essential role of government is to secure them. Period. Just secure. Never to abridge or infringe. Never to deny, sell or transfer. Secure means to preserve and protect. By the simple acceptance of the limitations imposed by "unalienable" and "secure", the supremacy of God over the State is obvious and undeniable.
 
Jews and Muslims, Hindoos (I love that 18th century spelling) and other pagans all believe in a higher power(s) - belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and the Holy Trinity is not required. Any god(s) will do. Atheists of course have fought and died for this country, and for that I thank them and honor their service. But that begs the question: Without a belief in an uncorruptible higher power, what entity would have the legitimate standing to constrain the state, especially if the people are disarmed, and further reduced by dependency and obedience? I have no desire to impose my faith on anyone - feel free to believe or not as you please. I am a big fan of the 1st Amendment. Even for atheists, agnostics, heretics, apostates, blasphemers and reprobates. 
 
There are two traditionally viable political parties, and a host of pretenders. The electoral fact of life is this - a vote cast for a 3rd or 4th party candidate is a vote against the Democrat or Republican that most closely follows the trends and directions you would like the nation to take. Right or wrong, for better or worse, like it or not, it's just the way it is. You cannot multiply something by dividing it. Splitting your side's vote is a sure way to elect the Party whose support was unified.
 
As for the unambiguous choice I offered to Mr. Cargill, I stand by it. The existence of a small minority of moderate or conservative rogue Democrats, acknowledged by "probably" and "usually" does not change the fact that choosing to be a Democrat means directly or indirectly supporting, by default, the Party's orthodox majority. And I still hold to the belief that the Democratic Party Platform and the actions and statements of Democratic Party leaders constitutes an ideology completely foreign to original Americana.
 
So, my dearest 8uLiebr, have you decided to be a Democrat, or an American?  
 
 


Posted:  1/29/2013 11:16 AM #36269
8uLiebr


Joined: 10/29/2012
Posts: 28
Last Post: 1/29/2013
I've decided to abandon any hope of finding any common ground with you. Happy trails.


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