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Posted:  9/13/2012 9:16 AM #34020
CTD Blogger


Joined: 7/14/2009
Posts: 10828
Last Post: 8/20/2014
Subject: Gun Grab: Obama Justice Department Ends Due Process
The Justice Department has granted the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) the power to seize and administratively forfeit property under the guise of controlling substance abuse. The ruling grants the ATF power to take property from people that have not been charged or convicted of a crime. (Infowars.com) The Washington Times gives an example of  forfeit and seizure abuse in the case of James Lieto a business owner that had $392,000 seized because he hired an armored car company that was under a federal investigation to transport money for his business. James Lieto was never accused of any crime. He was simply a customer of the company but was forced to spend thousands recovering his money.

Does this mean customers of a gun seller or FFL dealer “suspected” of being involved in a substance abuse case can have their firearms confiscated by the ATF with no due process?

The Constitution recognizes that we have we have Immunities, Privileges and a Right of Due Process.

If the Obama Justice Department can end due process in the name of fighting substance abuse, they can end the right of due process in ALL cases!

Read the article: The Washington Times



Posted:  9/13/2012 11:51 AM #34023
Kull


Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 318
Last Post: 8/13/2014
Someone better get on this crap fast because clearly this is un constitutional.This flagrant violation of our rights cannot be tolerated!  Where are Republicans on this! The ACLU dammit! This is Germany circa 1936 where the Government can defecate on any individual or entity with impunity!! No accountability,just free reign of terror and intimidation completely un checked. Obama ,you and your ilk are truly tyrannical,evil,Godless pus bags.

Posted:  9/13/2012 1:27 PM #34028
horselips


Joined: 5/2/2012
Posts: 2063
Last Post: 8/19/2014
Nancy Reagan told us all to "just say no to drugs." Now, behave everybody.


Posted:  9/22/2012 9:08 AM #34184
Wzrd1


Joined: 9/22/2012
Posts: 5
Last Post: 8/10/2014
I find it fascinating how you are only concerned that one agency now has authorization to utilize forfeiture laws that were expanded by Reagan's war on drugs, but not concerned about other agencies that have long been doing so.
In short, that you are alarmed that the BATFE can confiscate firearms from you if they feel there was a law violated, but not that the IRS, FBI or DEA could seize your home, vehicle, business assets and funds in the bank.
That there is a miniscule possibility that your firearms may be confiscated if you are considered even NEAR a crime, but not disgusted over the abuses by local, state and federal law enforcement that seize people's earnings and homes for "having a bad attitude".
"The administration" can do only what congress authorized. So, it behooves all of us to contact our congress critters and admonish them for shredding our constitution before our eyes.


Posted:  9/22/2012 10:37 AM #34185
Kull


Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 318
Last Post: 8/13/2014
It's not that it's just "one agency" Wizard. It's the fact that there is no one in any position of authority to do the right thing.Obama could've vetoed the NDAA that was signed by congress,but he didn't. He signed it into law on New Years Eve. If any President was truly concerned,he could veto any of these individual rights destroying legislation if he really wanted to.Better yet,use the Executive Order card.As far as voting in Congress critters to represent us,good luck! The whole Government is corrupted from top to bottom,local,state and Federal!Again,let me be clear,the whole system has been comprimised with corruption at all levels.There needs to be a grassroots uprising to cleanse this Nation. When we reach the point of economic collapse,then we can get really serious about this. Until then,we are just urinating into the wind.

Posted:  9/22/2012 7:59 PM #34187
Wzrd1


Joined: 9/22/2012
Posts: 5
Last Post: 8/10/2014
True, not one agency, as my second sentence mentioned. I only find it interesting that there is an objection now that the BATFE is permitted to do what other federal agencies have been permitted to do. Something that predates NDAA by quite a bit.
Note the Reagan war on drugs part of my comment, for that is the larger expansion date for forfeiture of real property.
 
As for this president, I was quite involved in the war on terror. I watched Obama as he was running for office and promising a few things we all knew he'd never keep once he got his full briefings, when he learned WHY GITMO was in use, why certain constitutionally dodgy things were going on, etc.
Because, at the end of the day, we ARE at war. During time of war, the US has routinely curtailed many civilian rights. During EVERY war we've ever fought. That was something that even the very first Supreme Court of the US decided was acceptable during wartime. 


Posted:  9/23/2012 6:32 AM #34190
Kull


Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 318
Last Post: 8/13/2014
I agree, we are at war.  The BATFE in a way is just like the IRS. They've gone over the constitutional limits to the point were due process is negated.Even in times of war,due process and illegal search and seizure are to be respected and constitutionally guranteed.Our government can hold the threat of the war on terror to suspend our individual rights indefinitely! On top of that,put on new rules of what ever they want to, like a Totalitarian Regime! This is exactly what I feel they are doing,with no intent of dialing it back any time in the future.This puts them in a position of supreme power and the ability to do whatever indiscretion in the name of the war on terrorism. If they were truly serious about this so called war,I would think they would first put a lockdown on our borders and have a comprehensive immigration policy! How can you let illegal aliens flow over your borders,especially terrorists,un documented! How do you think these people get in here in the first place! This is a major reason I feel they are not serious about the war on terrorism but serious about curtailing our God given constitutional rights.I feel they are using it as an excuse to steal away our liberties.They know who these people are,and yet we all have to pay the price because they don't want to profile?Please, I work with LE and I know how cock-eyed and stupid this whole policy is towards these suspects.

Posted:  10/9/2012 1:25 AM #34516
Wzrd1


Joined: 9/22/2012
Posts: 5
Last Post: 8/10/2014
No, the BATFE isn't at all like the IRS. The IRS has strict codes that reflect laws passed by congress.
The BATFE has strict codes that are nebulous and barely resemble laws passed by congress, as has been proved many, many times in the past few decades in courts of law. But the BATFE still continues in contempt of the courts of law of the land, as congress is too limber of wrist to wrest control of the rather controversial "firearms issue".
You are incorrect that the federal government may indefinitely suspend constitutional rights, that was proved all the way back during the civil war. Stop listening to propaganda and learn the history of our nation. Though, it WILL cost you money to fight the BS in court, unless you get a pro bono attorney...   :/
Hence, it is NOT "exactly what they are doing". Besides, don't you know where the National Guard armories are? Don't you think your National Guard neighbors won't protect the PEOPLE over the "totalitarian regime"? Don't you think that your MILITARY, sons, daughters, neighbors, cousins, etc, won't do the very same thing?
Lemme give you a hint. I retired from the military after over 27 years of combined service time. I've served with COMBINED forces deployed, NONE would support such a regime at all, from the four star General down. Any order to do so would be an unlawful order and could legally be disobeyed, starting at the General level.
Now, stop paying attention to BS about the terrorists coming across our southern border. Yes, some COULD get through, with the cloths on their backs and a small backpack that contained a lot of water. No nukes, they weigh a LOT more than anyone could carry across  a desert, let alone the very border. Think 90 pounds minimum in a desert. Major sucksville that would kill you quickly.
Not to mention setting off all manner of sensors that were installed LONG ago before 9-11 and have since been upgraded at major crossing points and other classified points. Besides, let's review the CAUSE of this war. NO terrorists came through the southern border, they came in on visas. Should we stop all visa? Only SOME visas and embark with trade wars that would naturally result?
Your notion that we're curtailing our "God given constitutional rights" is the purest, distilled bull**** on rye I've ever witnessed (far too many times). We curtailed constitutional rights more times over our national history than we've RESPECTED them. The Whiskey Rebellion for starters, it went downhill to a lowest during the McCarthy bull**** and the House Un-American Activities Committee (A more aptly name cannot exist, as they espoused EVERYTHING un-American and everything Fascist (interesting, as we fought a major war AGAINST fascists)).
Funny how you object about abandoning constitutional rights, yet want to profile, which is directly against the fourth amendment AND the fourteenth amendment. Or do LEO's today now only respect the first two amendments? Seriously, let me know if I have to stop speaking with all of my LEO buddies I've made over the years or need to educate them, if they have your very same view.
You can profile based upon BEHAVIOR, not race, color or religion.
Hell, if you saw my facebook picture, you'd not even want to speak nice to me, you'd be insulting me, as my wife took my picture from a Skype call when I returned to my quarters during a sandstorm, wearing the only sensible thing that also mixed with the local populace where I was deployed, my "tablecloth", with my "halo" (something my Arabian speaking translator jokingly called it to me, as he was half Saudi, half US citizen). Dust masks clogged within 5 minutes and left that frigging dust stuck to the skull like concrete dust.  
 
Want a laugh? Today, I read a story about a man who got 5 years probation for multiple firearms violations (including possessing an unlawful silencer), threatening civilians with a firearms and keeping our entire county LEO's busy for the best part of a day, counting our reaction team (aka SWAT). It turned out that he possessed multiple firearms, which have since been duly confiscated and had fired at LEAST 60 shots "in the air, as a warning", due to paranoid delusions. 
As he as rights, even if insane, he is released to my mild discomfort. I'd be FAR more comfortable if I KNEW his name was in the national database as known insane and prohibited a firearm. I'd even go for mandatory confinement until the mental health care professionals ARE SURE, as in legally culpable for damages sure, that he's safe.
Instead, he's allowed to walk the streets and we HOPE that Pennsylvania, for once, keeps up to date with the mental health assessment flags in the national database.
One of his "evil weapons" (per the press) was an AK47. Bad news in the hands of a lunatic.
Great in the hands of law abiding citizens (that is near last on my list to acquire firearms, as I rather liked the AK series that I fired on active duty when they were, erm, acquired).
To be honest, I am *REALLY* happy with our current handgun laws. I'd even say that semi-automatic rifles that can accept magazines over 20 rounds should be registered like a handgun.
That is the trade off we accept as reasonable precautions to protect OUR POPULACE. People LEO's swear to protect, as well as our military (I actually READ my oath of enlistment, every time I re-enlisted during my career. I also read our ENTIRE constitution, with amendments, every year of my service).
THAT is reasonable.
Outlawing a specific firearm that isn't destructive or fully automatic isn't. Though, I'm dubious about the 1985 limitation, as THAT appears unconstitutional.
I have zero heartburn over title II, as it currently stands OTHERWISE.
In short, I'm COMPLETELY second amendment, I'm also reasonable in precautions to protect the society and nation.
Not personally interested in acquiring class 3 weapons, but also know and respect the rights thereof of those who DO possess them.

I AM alarmed over some suggestion about evil "sniper systems" that briefly glanced off of the news. ESPECIALLY as NONE of the suggested systems, such as the .50 Barrett was EVER involved in ANY crime in the nation.


Posted:  10/9/2012 7:58 AM #34517
Kull


Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 318
Last Post: 8/13/2014
Thank you for your service Wizard.I'm hoping you're right about the Military defending the constitution against a "totalitarian regime" I wouldn't hold my breath on that though.This country has been changing over the last 50 yrs.People have become passive and less independent.The freedoms we had have been slowly eroded to the point were government controls just about everything.It has come to the point were people are fat,lazy and indifferent and could care less about who rules them as long as they have the basic needs.Just look at voter turnout for local,state and national elections. It may be 35-40 percent of the population on a good day!That tells me that close to 60% don't care enough to take part in their constitutional right to vote or get involved in the process.Therefore we have legislators who make law that erode and curtail our rights. A minority make a lot of noise but the majority are mute.Our education system is broken. We are turning out people who don't know the first thing about the constitution,math,science,history or grammar. We are graduating functioning illiterates who are easily swayed by propaganda.They are not taught how to be logical or objective to solve problems. The smart ones that do usually have outside influences that guide them through the public education system, Graduation rates have been steadily declining over the years. Where I live the city has a graduation rate of47%. We have a class of dead end parasites growing exponentially in this country.They could care less about freedom. Being wholly dependent on government,they could care less about this country,the laws or the IRS or BATFE  or LE.They are not participating in this society as contributing anything of substance to even participating in it[Voting,jobs].This is why government is piling on laws and regulations suffocating the producers and making life more difficult. Nobody is calling them on it but a minority of diissident voices.As far as terrorists go we are in a lot of do-do.I work with LE and yes we do profile. If a white guy robs a bank we look for white guy suspects. Same as if they were Black. We have Arab mini-marts and convenience stores we watch because a number of them sell drugs,guns and prostitutes. This has been going on for a couple of decades.They are engaged in counterfeit knockoff products and everything else. We set up sting operations all the time. The tips we get and how we process them are due in part on behavior,yes,but sometimes on other factors.[You fill in the blank].This country is disintegrating from the inside make no mistake about it. I'm a first generation American . My Father fled from a Democratic country that underwent the same process we are going through now.My relatives are trapped in there with no hope of getting  out.I have a different perspective than you do Wizard because of my background. People always take for granted what they have here in this country because that's all they've known their whole lives.They should read History to see how other Democratic Republics and similar governments went down to destruction.I hope this country can reverse the path that' it's on for all of our sakes. I enjoyed your post,and I respect your opinions.Don't be a stranger to CTD forums. Discussions are vital to share thoughts and ideas.

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